How to 52X your Real Estate ROI using Artificial Intelligence w/ Will Brown

Well, brown welcome,

man. It's great to be here. How are you, Brian?

I'm doing fantastic. It's been a long time coming. My friend. I remember it's crazy. It's been two or three years since

we first met. Yeah, I think so. I think.

At the GoBundance event. And I remember I was 25 at the time, and I was walking around this room full of these guys that are in their mid thirties, forties, fifties. And I was feeling out of place, I'm like, look at all these successful entrepreneurs and these multi-millionaires seven figure eight figure nine figure guys. And then somebody said, I was like, oh my, the youngest person here, everyone was like, no, No man. There's one beneath you. There's one younger and you need to meet him today. And that was none other than will freaking brown. That is on a today.

You're 22 now 22 turned 23 next month. Okay, so you

were 21.

Yeah, and it's been wild. And I'll tell you, I'm super grateful to that group. Cause in terms of mentors of in all walks of life, family, business, mindset so many different things. And then also, seeing you your journey and your growth over the last two years, I'm like, man, they keep letting him back in to these things because your resolve and your commitment and how you have to show up and add value again and again. So yeah, it's a pleasure to be able to chat with you. Dude.

I appreciate that. Sincerely, man, because you're, if I could think of a word to describe you, it would be impressive. So I'll stop gassing you up at that point here. And I will just let you get into your story brother. So let's get into you at 16 years old and start us from there and bring us up to where you left off with the bigger pockets party.

Yeah. I grew up in Northern Virginia, grew up on a farm. My nearest friend was like a mile away from me, so my parents always had to drive me. And so I had a lot of time on my hands and caused me to be pretty bored. And school was never really that interesting to me because I would always ask the question, okay, well, why am I learning this? What's the practical value of learning, how to do a long division in a world we're going to have calculators. And my teacher's well, nobody, everybody doesn't have a calculator in the pocket. This was like 2006. And I was like, but can't you see where the puck is going? And they said, no, we can't. And so then they hounded me for not wanting to learn great handwriting either. I was like, can't you see where the puck is going? The keyboard is coming out and phones and bottom line. This was like a bunch of these little events that started to erode my trust. I feel like a 7, 8, 9 year old in the public education system. And I started to look at the lives that they were living. And I was like, wait a second. And I didn't have really many points of reference at this time. They're there. They're like broke. My teachers are growth, they're miserable. And they're trying to tell me how to make life decisions. Someone's off here. What's going on bottom line. I didn't find. And now I still don't know why. I have some guesses, but I don't know anything for certain. And so I found my myself in video games where I could basically create and control these worlds that I loved, especially the economy games, because I could learn that if there's many people that want to do a bunch of different things, I could find ways to buy and sell and just create more efficient systems and take a profit and then get nicer stuff, get more stuff. And that was fun to me, the process of doing that. And so throughout high school, I was I was buying and selling seekers. I was flipping electronics. And then, my mom's saw that I was into this entrepreneurial stuff. And one of her friends was at like an MLM marketing company, invited her to there's millionaire, intensive mindset, blah, blah, blah thing. And so I went with her and then there was a little spiel about someone at Tanelle real estate investors. And this was the first that I ever heard about real estate and real estate to me, seemed like something out there that other people did. It was never in my wheelhouse bottom line. My mom and I cough up the $2,000 to go and we show up and pretty much get brainwashed for three days. These guys who put on these real estate seminars are the best in the business. They make you feel like you don't want to get information from anywhere else, but just them. You want to keep going with them until my dad said, no, we're not going to spend $20,000 on the upsell. And that kind of put us our tastes. But the seed had been planted. Nonetheless at that weekend, I had learned that it's possible for everyday people to buy and sell real estate. That's the only neural connection I needed. Once I learned that it was possible. Then a couple months later, I started to get into the house and I started listening to the bigger pockets podcast, one to two of them. Fascinated by people's stories, not trying to get any money right at the beginning, but just seeking to learn everything I could, because again, to see that implanted and I wanted to nurture it, it was like an acorn. I felt like it could become something much bigger. So I didn't want to rush the process. I just want to learn everything about the market that I possibly could. And that was my sophomore, junior and senior year of high school. Then I was starting to take actions. I was starting to put signs in people's yards are starting to get. People not producing any results because I still didn't know what I was doing, but I was standing up general education. And so graduation comes around, I'm applying to colleges and I get accepted to William and Mary in Virginia. My parents were like congrats and holding my diploma. I say, I'm going to drop out. They laughed at me. Obviously they thought I was kidding, but turns out college the, exactly what I thought it was going to be an exactly, not what I thought it wouldn't be and got bored with it and just decided to use my time. Just continue to build my real estate investment business, which leads me to the end of the first year where I'm like, do I want to keep renewing do I want to keep. Or do I want to commit 100%? And the environment that I was at when I dropped out of college was sleeping on an air mattress in Norfolk, Virginia in the ghetto, in the hood, there was like a guy's place. We were staying at, had a little baby pit bull that woke me up by pissing on me. But honestly, Brian, I was the happiest I had been in years because my life was in my own hands. Even though I only had $30 in my account, it was in my own hands and I was in control. So that was like the moment most people be like, Hey, I want to stay away from that. But for me, I was so uncomfortable being comfortable in the college, in that system, feeling like a sheep, being herded to the slaughterhouse of getting a job. Excuse my, I've got to speak my mind. Excuse my directness here. Go for it. Aye. Aye. Something switched in my brain and I was like I became comfortable actually being fun, comfortable. And that was a huge shift in my life. And seeing that, how can I lean into this discomfort? And I honestly haven't leaned out of it since I've just taken on bigger and bigger challenges since then, but that's like my origin story of how I got onto this track at such an early age. I was 18 at the time. And it's simply because I did, it's not like I graduated all four years of college and a semester, I don't think I'm super smart by those measures in any way. It's just, I saw like, where could I be if I finished school versus if I don't finish school, what if I had these next three years to myself? What could I do with it? And that was the exciting question for me. And then give people,

What were your results with this makeshift operation in the hood, in the ghetto, in this crappy little apartment with a pit bull pissing on you, you flipped the house or two,

right? Yeah. So my first deal actually was very awful. Because I had a mentor he's in GoBundance and he was flipping houses was learning from him. And so we felt like we more or less had a deal from just cold calling, like probates that we were just cold calling lists. We weren't producing any quality material. Well, these people like, well, we just inherited the property and were. We don't know what we want to do with it. All right. Let's get out to the house. And so we bring Phil along with us, and then we stand there nervously, like with our hands behind her bag, like wearing polos that we bought the morning of while Phil actually negotiates the deal and closes on the house and then pays us $5,000. I remember he gave us like 3000 of it upfront in cash, and I was like, we're really. And Brian, we went to the supermarket and we did not even look at the prices. We did not even look for sales. We're just like, we're going to get whatever we want. We're rich $3,000. Honestly, we go to the bank to like deposit, like whatever $2,800. Well, they let us deposit this much amount of cash. Are they going to think we're drug dealers or something like that? That was my mindset, but it was that first win that then gave us the motivation. So we moved out of that. God had got our own place to use as like a home office and then started to just refine our systems partner with couple people for marketing started to double down. Now that we had a data point that this was real now just a matter of doing it again and again. Where then I bought the partner out my original partner like in like October, November of that same year, we did our first deal in July. And then over the next six months, I'm just gung ho I hire my account. My first transaction coordinator, October, she starts to pick up a lot of paperwork and I started going to town until every day I worked 12 hours and my Podio would still have 120 leads that I still had yet to. And I was like, this sucks. I was doing deals. I was out working, but it wasn't going to scale. And so I said, oh, I need to hire an acquisition manager. I'm gonna hire an acquisition manager. And then, both of our plates filled up and then I hired another acquisition manager and I got to this point where I was like, Okay. Things are working. I think I can take this model and I can move it into multiple markets. At that point, we were doing four to six properties per month wholesale. And I'm making about like 14 ground average per property. So like I was grossing like a hundred grand netting, 30 K as a 19 year old, one year after dropping out of school. I was like, this is absurd. Did I miss something? No. The only thing that I did was I just grinded the heck out of it in a way that would not scale to other markets. I try to just, it didn't work. And so then I started getting curious about why, and I go to this retreat in Cabo, San Lucas, Mexico with a , which is actually an old child organizations of GoBundance actually how I on ramped into GoBundance. A couple of us feel some other people and I stay an extra day. We go jet skiing and get a nice dinner. We get in the hot tub. We start having a conversation and this conversation lasts

00 AM the next morning. And that was the night. My life entirely changed because this realization that you do so much hard work to get a deal across the finish. But then more or less, you have to start over on the next deal. Like crippled my motivation to want to take this into 50 different markets. It's I can't scale exponential. If all of my systems and processes are linear and the way that you play the game is linear. And so I got thinking and I was like, okay, I already hit my goals. I've already hit my goal of financial freedom. And my goal of what that means to me is not having a big barrel of fish that will keep me fed for the rest of my life, sitting off to the side. What that means to me is being able to learn how to fish so that wherever I am in no matter where in the world, if shit goes south, I can. Use my core skills. I understand the nature of that. People will always have problems selling properties, no matter what market I'm in, I will be able to be good. And because I had that, my nervous system reset, and I stopped thinking for me, and I started thinking for the world, I said, okay, what can I do as a human being with this life to elevate the consciousness of humanity because of. Dropping out of college, flipping a couple houses. That seems like a reasonable step, obviously. There's yeah, I'll figure it out along the way, but that's really the trajectory, the direction I wanted to go, even though I was unclear on the destination and that transpired. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah. And so what, so you may, you gross a hundred the first year and then didn't you blow it up even further after.

Yeah. So I think the first year we did like a total, like my goal. This is actually I hardly ever, I rarely remember this. So I appreciate that. My goal was in February of 2018, before I ever did want a hundred grand for the year. And I told my girlfriend at the time it was dating, will you support me? She says, no, that's unfair. You haven't made any money yet. How can you expect me to support you? I said, okay, this is probably not going to, we're probably not going to work out bottom line. I remember like walking, I was living in Virginia Beach at the time I was walking up and down the boardwalk. Wait a second. What did we do this year? And it was 250, 4,000, even though my goals were set on such bigger. When I actually looked back at how much we had done, it was two and a half X, the impossible goal that I set the next year, 2019, we did 700,000. And that was with me, rooting to California, June of 2019 to start this. And I started splitting my time. So really my focus was like 50 50 between the two. And so that's how all that works out my transition, or like my life put my memo would basically be called my memoir growing pains. Cause anytime something's working, I break it all down to build the next model. So there's not a whole lot of like consistency or comfort in the processes. Everything is always evolving and changing and. It's something that I just had to learn to stomach and get with and understand that is a symptom of growth. You can't want, you can't get comfort out of things, staying the same way and want to grow at the same time. We all have the same amount of time in the day. And this just hit me a couple of weeks ago in a new way. Okay. If we all have the same amount of time, what does it really come down to during the day? It's probably not how we spend, yes, that's how we spend our time, but it's the choices of the people that we make to build whatever building with us, because if I can hire someone. For example, I use my CTO and then we'll get into the tech, if I can hire somebody who already has gone through a 20 year learning curve, not only am I going to be able to be buying that learning curve and that best practice and not have to make mistakes failing forward, but I'm also buying him putting in another 40 plus hours per week. I have doubled my own capacity, but so much more than that. Whereas if I were to try and do everything myself, which we all, when you're first getting started, you're like, I'm the only one that can do that. I actually believe I do things worse than anybody else in the world. And that switching that from, I do it the best I do with the worst has enabled me to simply appreciate honor and create space to bring on super talented people that can actually knock it out of the park because my standards for other people are extremely high. Because again, I have the belief that if I do it, I'm going to stop. And so the one thing that I'm good at is understanding and putting the people in place on the team. And that's something that has to be earned and fought for and learn through trial and error. I've hired people. I fire people, but breaking through that mold. And now we're like bringing on a couple new people every single month. I can't wait to hire the next person. I love seeing the huge paychecks going out the door because I know that's coming back to me so many times over then if I were to even try and learn what is. So that's like a quick aside to huge benefit.

And it's been cool. It's been really cool watching you make that transition, right? Because you, before you were the guy that was on the podcast and made like 700,000, almost , seven figures at what like 19, 20 years old, doing all this flipping and wholesaling and to go from that and to have all these realizations. And have the conversation about changing it from a MI sport to a we sport that soon, that is a shining endorsement for the power, like truly for the power of mastermind and mentorship, right? Because you saw it in GoBundance and you saw it with the people that were looking at it. And I know that they preach it from the mountaintops and you are able to implement because what you and I have that somebody that's 50, 60, 70, that may be worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. We have time. And so now it's an exponential return game. It's an massively infinite return because we have such a large time horizon. I want to tell a story real quick before we get into the rest of your trajectory here, because now you're doing some really cool things in the AI game, and you're taking all the principles that you have already, and then you're going to scale them again, exponentially you and I. When we, when I met with. We were

golfing. This isn't gonna go well. Yes it is. We were

golfing and here's the skill you have that I noticed. And it's in this story of golf. We all pull up to golf and it's me and a couple of other guys and Phil that we'll just talk about it. And then we'll, we all pull up and there's a bunch of other guys with a hundred million dollars. David Osborne, all those gases, it's a big deal to golf and I'm pumped. And this is my first time going to go abundance and then will pulls up and he's like, all right, guys, I've never swung a golf club. Let's do this. And we all collectively look at each other and I was like, well, he's punking us. He's got he knows how to golf. He's just gonna, all of a sudden start golfing. This man had never swung a golf club and had his polo on rental bags. And he was on the course and he's alright, cool. Teach me how to swing on the course.

Yeah.

So that's a skill. You have a net. For diving headfirst into action. You are the personification of ready fire aim. So was that something, is that just how you're wired or was this something that was learned for you? Because this is such a hangup for most people get into paralysis analysis, but not for you.

Yeah. It's interesting to think about like the relationship between naivete and fear, right? Ignorance and. And, an analogy of this is what if I go out into the ocean, there's one way I could go about it, which is, frolicking in the water and the waves and playing around and being ignorant that who knows, I might step on something, or there might be a shark or there might be something sharp or who knows. The other ways to be fearful of every single step. And at the end of the day, I always look at like the actual cost. Is it going to be, is it going to be an emotional cost? Are people going to make fun of me? That doesn't really matter to me. People make in front of me, I make more fun of myself than anybody can make fun of me. And so I think there's actually a correlation between going from real estate investment to say, Hey, I can start an AI company to learning golf and yeah. And here's why. Okay. There's people around me that know how to do it. They're human beings. I'm a human being. I'm sure there's a lot of steps in the process here, but I also have always believed that iteration is the best tool that you have rather than trying to take this perfect swing of the baseball bat. How can I structure it such that I can set myself up in environment to a hundred swings and improve 1% each. And that's really the approach that I take to anything that I do now. And so I know I call it the bleeding phase. It's like when you first start, flossing and your gums are bleeding, it's like painful building that habit. But once you get used to it, you your body is adaptive. The mind builds muscle memory. I just started picking up the piano and it's fascinating to see to me. Manually. I have to do the thing with my fingers and then naturally I can just do what my eyes closed. And I think those principles of understating the super power that exists inside of our own mind and leveraging the intelligence of others has put me in a position and was like what's not possible. The only things that aren't possible are things that break the laws of physics. And still, those are only laws of physics. As we know. And so I took my arrow and I ended up pretty high trajectory and said, look, I don't know exactly how to build an AI, but I do know that I've had thousands of conversations with sellers and I could train another human being to do that. And I heard rumors that there was technology and chatbots, and I said, okay, even if it was a super complex and very fundamental decision, I could build that out. I could probably learn to code that myself. And so starting with that, I like more the why not rather than a, how will I ever be able to, it's just the mindset that is the perfect foundation to launch from, because you're not expecting to see anything, but you understand, it's just gonna be a matter of iteration, and that's probably why I'm drawn to AI itself. And yeah. Absolutely. Yeah,

absolutely man. And like I said, it's the perfect personification because you're a standard operating procedure in and of yourself because I remember when you were doing it, you. . I'm a decent golfer. And I was getting pissed off while we were golfing. Phil's a decent golfer. He snapped his nine iron over his name. And then we're all golfers. We know how to do it. And wills was just smiling the entire time. It was like, oh, this is fun, guys. This is fun. This guy gets it like this guy gets, and that's such a rare skill. And now we're able to transfer that. And I think that's just a really good summary thing. That is your Mo think that's your operating system that allows you to pivot and succeed in everything you do. You just really truly fall in love with the process and the iteration. So it's been really cool to watch, and I know that fast forward 20 years. I can't wait to visit whatever country you are.

That's hilarious. No, all the countries already claimed that would be a human rights violation. I just, I build the robots to make it that could've been make the cost of living. To have actually people get paid just to live there and do nothing. But yeah, I think there's other worlds. So Titan, right? Titan Saturn's largest moon. That was my original north star goal. know, It's also what I named my company, Titan X after stands for Titan experiences, the world's smoothest customer experience. And I think to add another, to keep using the space analogy or another rocket booster for me to this mission was the amount of pain. And like emotional suffering that I felt when I had to wait on hold, but people in customer service. And I just had the experience that my time was being completely disrespected. And I was trying to set up utilities at a property and I was being treated like, shit. I was like, wait a second. How are we talking about putting people on Mars? But we're still having people wait on hold. And having them go through these terrible phone trees, what's the disconnect. And so bottom line started to like actually understand the core technologies, the existing systems, all the series and Alexis, why they're not going to solve that problem and what it's really going to take to be able to solve that problem. And I was like, if I do nothing else with my life, if I solve customer service, I feel like I will have done. I will have fulfilled on my potential and the world would be a better place if people do not need to imagine if like when you talk to a company that was the highlight of your day. What if that was the place to feel heard and not heard it? What if that was place for you to be valued and actually supported along your journey in life? Which is the mission of these companies just doesn't translate through 17 layers of call centers, managers, and minimum wage people at a 40% turnover a year. So the system's broken. Yeah. It's all horses and carriages don't scale. We needed something a little bit more automatic. And so I got into digging into the tech and we started to come up with a thesis about how to build this technology about how to teach them. They can have really good conversations and to get into it, like just a little bit, the way self-driving works is it looks at a lot of datas and then it's drawing patterns between the computer vision. And so being able to recognize object, and then it's following logic based on the object. That's. Which is that same thing that we do as human beings, by the way we go through the world, we recognize objects. And then we, goes in and say, okay, we want to eat food. We need to get this. We need, get this. We need to do this. We want to walk somewhere. We get depth perception, all of this. And it's so seamless. We don't even realize we're doing it. It just seems like this is our reality, but it's a very much patched together through all our senses. AI doesn't have that senses. So it has to be constructed from the ground. And so to go back, I was like, there's no great store of conversational data on the internet. There's just not there's Reddit. But right. It's not a good store. And anybody who's trying to build a bot like that has always become very quickly racist, misogynistic, and they just shut it down. You can Google it. And so I realized the salute. Yeah, really? That's the reality. First of all, problems. Yeah. Google racist chatbot Microsoft AI. You'll get a kick out of it, right? Sorry, Microsoft. They know what they've done. Bottom line though, it's not the engineer's fault. It's just how it's been constructed. And so I don't come from a computer science background. I don't come from a coding. I come from a talking to people to get sales done background. I come from a building rapport, gathering information, answering questions, handling objections. I said, wait a second. This isn't that what a conversation is, there's two parties. There's maybe one person has one goal and the other person has the other goal. And then it's a negotiation to be able to have both of their goals met. Isn't that more or less what a conversation is, and that there's some steps along the way, and then some questions and there's some different ways you have to handle. It's okay. What if we were to build something in cases where there's a lot of the same conversation happening, we would be able to improve and get exponentially smarter with each conversation until the point where we have mastered that specific type of conversation at such a low cost per conversation, because it's just ones and zeros and electricity deployed to the wires, that it will no longer make sense for human beings to hire human beings in that. And so where we are starting to bring it, nearly full circle is in the real estate investment space. The problem that I hit a wall when I was trying to scale was that I faced this diminishing marginal return with every single dollar I spent on marketing. And here's why we only have so much time in the day. And I had a team of three acquisition managers. And when 10 leads come in every day, which costs you $2,000 to generate those leads. And all they say his name, number, and address. How do you know which ones are worth following up with first? How would you figure it out? A ranking system? Yeah. Perfect. But how would you rank them?

Exactly. You wouldn't be able to that's what it's lacking is being able to have any differentiators and ranking.

Yeah. So the acquisition manager has to call. Four to five to six times to get them back on the phone. Even if they just respond to people are notoriously difficult to get ahold of these days and they have spam blockers and block your call if you're not in the favorites and that's going to continue to get worse. And I said, oh my gosh, this is awful. We are spending so much time chasing after people trying to get them on the phone, but are actually never interested in selling. What if we just didn't spend those time with people and we just spend more time with the people that were worth selling, same amount of leads, more deals closed because who's actually worth following up with, and this isn't just in real estate, this applies to all industries, sales. Yeah. Sales. And so here's the issue. A lot of real semesters we'll drive traffic to a website. And so we'll say, Hey, get putting your address, your phone number and your name and your email or whatever to get a. You click get an offer and then it takes you to a second page where it says, now tell you, tell us more about your property. I'm like, no, I just clicked a button to get my offer. Where's my offer. And they drop off. And so it's creating all these leads where basically you can't have a huge form for people to fill out because they're just not going to fill it out. They're going to go to the next. And the other thing is a form is a one-sided conversation that does not provide the person filling out that form. Any immediate value, think of like a support ticket. If you fill out a form because you're using some service and you fill out, Hey, I need help with this. You're not getting immediate value for putting the energy and time into doing that. You're getting perceived future value that they're going to get back to you to resolve. Put yourself in the shoes of a motivated seller, same exact thing happens after looking at that verse 17 other options. It was an unwinnable game. And so we sorta had to flip the script and said, okay, well, what happens? What would happen if we have a conversation with people, as soon as they respond, like we instantly replied. What would it take to do that? And then what if we were to have a conversation that qualified them on the motivation, their timeline, their conditioning price, where in a way that they actually answered the questions, because we were also giving them value in that.

Yeah. And there's an exchange.

Yeah, exactly. So they're willing, right? There's not an entitlement. There's Hey, we'll give you this, you give us that. And what I found through my experience is that what is it valuable to sellers is information is getting their questions answered is a learning more about the process, because most people that. In the cash offer, motivated seller world. There's some level of uncertainty in their life that they're starting to understand. Maybe that's an upcoming inheritance or a tenant that's causing problems or whatever. And they're trying to reach out and figure out what their options are before that uncertainty turns to certainty. Most people don't get that. Most people think people will only respond when their, their house is on fire and they need somebody to. But how I did over a million dollars in that first year and a half was that I focused on the followup. 80% of my deals came for followup. And that's because one, our initial 80%. Yes. Most people do not follow up. And so they're completely missing out on everyone. Who's a legitimate seller, but that is not going to that's only ready in a couple of months, but they're still super motivated. And so they go for the low hanging fruit that everyone else is going for. But the people that build the relationships over time, when that person three months later is actually ready to sell, who are they going to go? It's going to go to the

person that, yeah. That either the one that they had the relationship with or the one that they most recently.

Exactly. Here's why investors don't do that because it's a capacity problem. You can only follow up with some people. And again, going back to that, they're not ranked, they're not prioritized. They have no idea. John, Sally, or Sue, it's going to be the one we're following up with. They put them on these preset, automatic drip campaigns that are so general, they don't work and they just notify you of a response. And so your conversions go down the rapport, the trust in that relationship goes down. So what's this. What we have now tested out in over 25 markets is using a traffic generator of direct mail. And I'll speak to that here in a second as, so why we're using direct mail, but we have found the best converting piece of mail, which is called auto pen letters. And we have partner it's a machine that actually holds a pen in hand, writes it. So it's not a handwritten font. It's an actual handwritten letter. Like here and it actually looks it's a pen that's written on paper and it's got a note inside and we say text your address to this phone number to get an offer after a couple of lines and really smart copy that we've AB tested when sellers text they're understood to that. They're engaging with our AI. That's responding, not in 30 minutes or six hours, but in three seconds to then come back, validate their address, using a Google maps API, to make sure that we know exactly what they're talking about. And then we go through and say, great, what's your name? What's your motivation timeline condition price. The average conversation length is three minutes. People don't just stop halfway through the conversation because it's engaging. It's natural. It's the way that we talk to each other. If you're having a conversation with me and we're texting back and forth, and you're seeing that I'm texting say five seconds, five to seven seconds later, you're going to stay engaged in that conversation because you want to see what I have to say. And the reason you want to see, what I have to say is because the contextual frame has been set up. You're not, I'm not, let's say if you're a potential seller, a lot of people are doing texting and it's, depending on the state and how you feel about it could be a potential TCPA violation. But if I'm texting you saying, Hey, do you want an offer? You didn't ask to get that text. You're already put on the defensive and you already have the power in the conversation. You have the leverage. You're not going to want to give me truthful answers. I came to you. We flip that script with. Because when people are coming in through mail, they're inbound people, they're already motivated. They're playing along. If you will. And what we're seeing is an uptick in conversion rates. When you give people the option to text their offer, text their address for an offer rather than just calling enough. Number one, because they actually see that they're gonna be able to respond on their time and choose the way that they want to self express. But number two, I guarantee you, if you Google, sell my house fast, your city and you call 10 different investors. Like I guarantee half of them won't even answer the phone. It's a capacity issue. It's a connection issue. Someone's not always there available, pick up the phone and the best investors I've ever seen. I don't want to hire or run an entire call center of virtual assistance because that's going to hurt their conversion rates as well, because they can't control the quality of the conversation. And so what they want to do is just buy more. And so what we have built is a system that allows you to set up a creative marketing number, your local, go create a campaign or roll out a mail campaign that uses custom copy, that we've already predetermined. We handle all of it. And then when those responses come in and not only are we qualifying them and then passing them off to you, you're also getting a lead report, an SMS notification of a summary of a conversation, motivation, timeline conditions. And a link to view the transcript three seconds after that conversation with. And then for the entire campaign, you can go back and see your KPIs of how many responses you got per day. How many calls you got? Cause sometimes people will still call that 20%. How many leads you got, how many prospects came through that weren't fully qualified and you will be able to see your cost per lead. And now we're adding to your revenue per lead, per campaign, all the KPIs being managed just by putting in a couple pieces of information about what mail, like how much mail that you sent. And if I know anything about real estate investors, it's that even the guys who are doing consistent volume have no idea what their KPIs are. And they're really just guessing and relying on luck that something's going to close and what that causes is like seemingly high highs, but then very low lows where they could be looking at, a pipeline of the next 60 days of not having any more deals coming in because they simply have just been doing sporadic marketing here and there. Whereas investors that know that are in it for the long haul and want to consistently acquire off market properties each month, understand that you have to plant the seeds. Now you don't have to plant it in the spring to harvest in the fall on real estate. It's a slightly smaller timescale, but you have to be consistently planting seeds. It's just a lot to keep track. And so in addition to these conversational skills and that qualification, we embedded all of that. So people can see the performance of the technology and they can see exactly down to the cent, what they're spending and what they're getting out of every single campaign

I've got first off. Wow. Second off. And yeah, it just really never stops like how you phrase things and how you view things and how you solve problems. Never stop. Being, like I said, I , alluded to it before, but impressive is the word. An observation I have of a problem that you solved, whether it be intentional or not, I would probably err, on the side knowing you that it was intentional, but you went into this trying to solve a customer service issue. And a scale issue and an efficiency issue, but then a problem that you also seem to have solved is a generational communication gap issue. Because now when you're looking at the people that are sellers in this market, the people that we're prospecting for, they're looking at maybe. Yeah, I'm sure you have data on this. Probably like forties 50, 60, 70 years old.

Yeah, because you even have, the boomers were a little bit older, but they're usually like, and being advised by one of their kids,

kids. So what you're doing. W the problem with the regular texts and the website and everything is because they're not necessarily going to want to be engaging with that platform. And with that communication and the people that you're reaching for are the ones that did. And come up, sending letters, receiving letters, and now they've got so many automated letters that none of us look at the letter, unless it's handwritten. Honestly, I throw away mail all the time. The only mail that catches my eyes, something that's handwritten because I'm like, it's either a wedding invitation or someone I know personally. So you crack that code. And then what you did was you married the new generation with the old, because now they're opening. This letter, which is their introduction to you in the way that they're familiar with and were brought up in, and now you're saying, Hey, this is something familiar to you. This is a medium familiar to you for communication. Now, let me bring you in invite you to come into my world and text. And so now you've got people. Cause I've ran text campaigns and done all of that too. When people get, pissed off because they're like, I don't want to text nobody and they'll call you, like you said 20%, but now this is such a cool invitation to be able to. Both forums and both styles of communication married. And I think that's such a sweet spot that you're hitting because that's very interesting that this AI company is based off of the backbone of direct physical mail. Yeah. It's a, it's a juicy.

It really is. And I was like, oh man, mail is not sexy. All right. Let's make mail sexy again. And here's how you do you find that you find the highest converting and then because I'm a tech on a prop tech investor platform company, I'm not just one investor sending out a couple thousand pieces of mail a month. I got dozens of customers. We're shooting for about a thousand by the end of the year. That's a lot of leverage for me to go to the mail houses and said, Hey guys, let's work out a deal. And let's work out a deal such that we create a bulk discounted price for anybody who uses my platform, no matter how much they want to send. And so not only is it, everything that you said, but you're getting the same pieces in conjunction with our like instant qualification and response and a 50% discount than what your competitors are being able to pay for the same. And so in that way, it's like a notebook. The tech, it will, you don't even have to use the technology, but will we make it because I'm not just trying to ruin the mail industry and give everybody a discount. But for these specific male partnerships, a 50% haircut means that if you were to spend $3,000 before you might have been able to sent out maybe 1800, 2000 mailers, but now you can send out 3000. And so you're getting an additional 10 leads. You're two, you're going to be doing more deals on a same initial dollar output than your competitors are, which means you're going to be able to out-market them. And the reason that we did that is because all of our customers, when we're onboarding people, we start them with a trust building campaign, because it's important for me that people see this disruptive technology. Prove results for them in their business. So we usually do 3000 mailers, one touch, one campaign, but I want everyone to come back and scale because that's what our technology enables them to do is to scale the amount of mail they're sending it out to be able to get more leads inbound. We qualify those leads and now they have more actual opportunities and they're spending their time with the people that are actually on those opportunities. We're building intelligent and dynamic followup sequences to go and respond. Reply to people and continue to build that relationship for the investor to never even know that I know we came in and they can see in their KPIs, but that person will only come into their, onto the desk once they bubbled up to the top. And we've said, Hey, okay, now this person's motivated a couple of months ago. They weren't here's what's happened. Here's our conversations that we've had so far and now here's where they're at. And to be able to hire that at the click of a button would seem too good to be true. But I can tell you there's two and a half years of diligent work going through every single layer and understanding how these conversations work and the variations of what people say to be able to construct the tooling that we need on the back end, that we now have to be able to build all these things out and continue to refine them as we're scaling across the country.

Man. Okay. I love this. I want to go, I really wanted to take you into the hiring process and how you went about that, but just for simply time's sake, because I want to be able to condense this less than an hour. I want to invite you to share some of your case study. That you've had from some of the, from some of these trial runs and then go into how many more people you're taking on as customers right now, because I already know that after this airs you're going to be flooded. So let's go ahead and establish, what kind of ROI is you're seeing here with your campaigns and then how many more we're taking on, and then what this looks like moving from. Yeah,

totally. Which is a great point because one of the things that we are, we have been we're like being cautionary about is limiting the amount of people. Because if everybody's using this sort of supercharged system, it's going to hurt the people who came on earlier. So we're going to be limiting on some sort of population cap. For sure, like most of the real estate investor companies are doing that are doing something proprietary because otherwise it will just become a commodity and become less valuable. And that's not my intention here. That's not what I want to do. Sure. One thing to note here is that geography has a huge impact in terms of the ROI and why that is, is just because of competition. If somebody is getting 20 week, 20 mailers per week versus two mailers per week, the chance that they're going to respond to yours is obviously much lower. If they're getting the 20, that is just simple math. And so the nice thing about that is if you're wholesaling in those urban metropolitan markets like Philly, Pretty much all of Florida, Dallas, Houston either there's so many places, Chicago Seattle, Los Angeles guides, places like that. You are going to have a ton of buyers for deals that you need much harder to find inventory. So your cost per lead is going to be higher. So getting the first one, we have Philadelphia a guy named Kelsey and he's done a couple of different touches with us. And in aggregate, this campaign was 5,600 mailers. So the total campaign cost was about $7,900. He generated, we generated 49 leads for him and he was just wholesaling them. And he did three deals to get to 61,000 in total revenue on that $7,000 spend, which is about like a 7.6 X campaign ROI. And $161 cost per week. So this is a lot of numbers. But I could probably simplify it, but these are all super important KPIs. See, what's working, what's not working. And we provide this as well because some investors will think that they actually have a lead volume problem. When in fact they actually have a lead conversion problem, and they're not spending the time with the types of leads that they should be when they don't actually need to generate any more leads until they have their closing and negotiating appointments, setting process. So that's why we track it all at each stage.

Share. I know that you probably intentionally didn't want to share it because it's such, hopefully it's not an outlier, but share Hayden's data.

I know

I brought him into GoBundance and he was very hesitant to join GoBundance. Hayden, if you're listening to this shout out, he said, I don't know about GoBundance and he joined and I said, Hey man, that 10 grand is coming back to your real quick, just one relationship away. And Well, we'll paid for a couple of years ago. Bundance for him. So what was Hayden's ROI?

Yeah. So this is hilarious, cause I want to see if this will be re reproduced. So Hayden, I got on a call with them, I'd say, all right, let's do three touches, 1500 he's in like rural Tennessee. And so for three touches of 1500, each one of them costs about 2,400. Total expenses, seven grand all-in. He drops it and he says, okay, let's do this. We ship them the boxes of mail. He drops like the first couple of boxes from the first round, we ship them all three touches on this first touch. He gets 17 leads from 1500 response, which is over like a 1% response rate, which is insane. I was like, okay, that's good. But I remember I'm coming back from a trip and I'm going through customs, I'm texting and say, Hey, how's it going? Hey, have you dropped your next run of mail yet? I've got four of these guys under contract nine of the leads are really solid and I'm super swamped. I'm gonna have to hold off on sending more mail. I was like, well, wait a second. What? You put four under contract out of nine deals and now he's flipping, right? So he's in a more rural market, but his metrics are $2,400. Spend his total flip revenue is 128,000. His gross profit on. It's a 52 X campaign ROI. He hasn't even sent out touches two or three. He's going to be able to triple that. But for me, it's a little annoying and man, this is great. However, I'm only charging 20 bucks per lead that we qualify. So I know he'll be a repeat customer for life with us. But that's, it was still hilarious. Oh my gosh. You did you, you did three, you did four contracts. Those three deals that you make $40,000 per deal. And your cost per deal with 800 bucks. That's insane. So he's doing something right? So w moving

forward if people are interested in which every person listening to this, if they're involved in real estate, which is a majority, if they're interested and they want to reach out, what does this look like? How many more are you taking on? What does this process look like if getting in touch?

Yeah. So the best way is just to go and book a discovery call just to see if it's a fit with how you're generating traffic and to go through a short conversation and say, Hey, does it make sense for us to have a second conversation? It's definitely not a fit for everyone. It's not a one size fits all approach. There is a specific sort of like criteria and parameters that would make it make more sense than how that make less sense. If you're just trying to get into buying houses versus time. Some of it might be new, but if you're a veteran and you've been doing this for a while and you run by the KPI's, it should make a lot of sense go to our site, Titan x.ai, and there should be a link there to go start your free trial and book a discovery call. And the discovery call is actually with Sean and I hired Sean cause a couple of GoPros recommended me cause he just came out of the emerge program. And so his goal is to get into GoBundance by the end of the year. Yup. Yup. Yeah. Go show him some love and the one promo that we're doing in terms of capping. I got the objection from people. Well, well, if what you say is true, the technology is going to keep getting better. So why should I jump on this now? Rather than a couple of months and a couple of months and a couple of months. And so what we created was an early adopter lifetime discount. Whereas if you sign up before May 30th of this month, so it's like May 12th right now, you will basically have a tag on your conversation. You get a 30% discount on all the. 'cause we're gonna be coming out with features to automatically go back and forth and negotiate with sellers to follow up with them and just set appointments with them as well. But you'd be able to turn on and off and you can bet your bottom dollar. We're going to be charging more on a per lead qualified for those features. So the incentive is to show up, sign up now before May 30th, and I'll walk in that early adopter for you, tag that to your account. So you have that before.

Yeah. And what we'll do is we'll like I've known you two years. Well, we'll go ahead and X will expedite this. So this will be out prob I'll try to get this out next week. So people will have a win enough of a window and go bonus gas. That's out of respect, freak out or give it, you're throwing you a bone. We're getting all that early adopter discount. Cause I can already know. Yeah, this is going to be, this is going to be huge. Any other. Disqualifications. Who is this? Not for. Let's go ahead and let's go ahead and say all the reasons why you shouldn't use this. So that way people that are reaching out, like they know that this is for them. So we can go ahead and get that out of the way as much as possible.

Yeah, this is not for people whose like exit strategy can't substantiate on their deals. Can't substantiate like between a 1000 and a $4,000 costs. In terms of the mail. There's a lot of investors, a lot of people who are in text message marketing and it's like super cheap. It's like a couple of hundred bucks a month to use that service. So the generating a ton of leads that they've been set through this isn't for outbound this in Kansas. Give me a list. You can't text people without their consent. This is really for people who want to buy back their time or increase the dollar per hour productivity of their existing acquisitions people by allowing us to be able to prioritize those things for them and to generate a predictable source of new leads. Managing through the KPIs. So if you're doing like one every couple months, it probably won't make a lot of sense to product for people doing like at least one to two a month. And then the more that you're doing per month, the more it's a fit, because the more leads you're having to sort through and qualify to see which ones are worthwhile.

Okay. Awesome. And then ladies and gentlemen, if you're listening to this, which I know you still are because. I don't think that many of y'all would exit this interview randomly. And I know that you're all going to finish this because you're all tried and true real estate professionals or investors that are looking into getting into real estate. If you go and subscribe to the action academy newsletter, we will also have will out on Tuesday and we can include some of these case studies within the newsletter so that you can be able to see on your eyeballs. You can have a recap of our conversation today. Some of them. Top tips takeaways from this episode, as well as more information on Titan X. So we'll brother, what for the closing question, because for time's sake for the closing question, if you could end and leave this world at the end of your life, what is the one thing that you'd want to leave as your legacy?

So it's my mission of the company and it took me two and a half years to put this into one sentence. So it's pretty packed. I wouldn't want to leave an elevated consciousness through my efforts and my team's efforts to democratize access, to personalized, super intelligence. I would want to leave every human being. With the power to tap into AI and have it, help them understand the map of their mind and to read that and to see how we create our own reality and to see exactly how they got to where they want to go. And that it's possible for them to go wherever they want and to be. At every step, along the way without feeling lost without feeling like they need to figure out everything for the first time for our species. So democratized access to personalized super intelligence.

And then I knew that you'd had put a lot of thought into that answer. So I needed to ask you that before we left. So anywhere else people can find you that you want to direct people towards, or just Titan x.ai.

Well, I'm sorry, I'm starting to post more real estate content. Now that we've launched on my Instagram too. I also post fire spinning content, for laps. It's one of my, one of my hobbies and that's Instagram will dot J brown should be a fall. There should be a DM. We'll say, Hey, what's up. It's me. That manages it. And then also on Facebook to appearing the buttons, just free to reach out holler or come through on our site of the best way. I'd love to be able to have a relationship where I'm providing value for people. And, for a long time I wrecked my heads of how can I do that? I don't want to coach, I don't want to tell people things they already know. I don't want to motivate them. I want to create something that could actually be valuable to them in their day to day. And let's do it.

Yeah. And in closing, I remember that when we were finishing that same conference and the people listening, this is the first conference that Tony, my stories about the first conference I ever attended. And GoBundance, and I remember leaving, I asked will in passing. I said, Hey man, I was like, is there any other advice, any information that you could give on doing all these things that you're doing? And he said, yeah, check out this podcast and this podcast. And I was like, you know what? Like podcasting seems to be a very evergreen way of presenting in preserving information. And now here we are full circle. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you very much for coming on. This has been Brian and Elan. I mean, Willie Brown signing off with the action academy podcast.